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Topic: Current Issues &, Road Map Ahead

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clacker

Group: Members
Posts: 570
Joined: June 2004

Posted: Jan. 17 2006,03:15

Quote (mikshaw @ Jan. 15 2006,15:03)

So I assume the old nvidia driver will once again work in 2.2?

I created an nvidia.dsl to work on dsl 2.1 and I have submitted it to extensions for testing and approval. I know now it's a day late and a dollar short, but...

I fear it's too late to save the 2.4.31 kernel, but I feel I need to try.

clivesay

Group: Guests
Posts: 935
Joined: Dec. 2003

Posted: Jan. 17 2006,03:49

During my recent travels I was told I needed to eat at a hamburger joint called '5 Guys'. I had never heard of it but was told it was THE place to get a hamburger and fries. I walked into a simple red and white restaurant with simple seating. The menu was also simple, basic hamburger, cheeseburger and bacon cheeseburger...all with free toppings of your choice. That was pretty much the extent of the menu. As I sat down to eat, I looked around the restuarant and noticed magazine and newspaper articles posted everywhere praising this establishment for their food. They had taken a simple hamburger and focused on perfecting it. There were no buffalo, turkey, veggie or soy burgers, just hamburgers. When people go there they know what they'll get and expect the quality to be high.

Hamburger - DSL isolinux/syslinux
Cheeseburger - DSL USB
Bacon Cheeseburger - DSL VMX
Fries - Lua/FLTK
Toppings - MyDSL

My Hamburger (base DSL) & fries (Lua/FLTK) are are tasty as is and I can add any toppings (MyDSL) of my choice. I'm afraid Buffalo (2.6 DSL) and Turkey (Minimal DSL) might cause the cooks to be so pre-occupied with other things that my beloved hamburger (base DSL) will suffer and not taste as good. All of that additional expense and time cooking the other burgers may mean that I start to get less fries (Lua/FLTK) with my beloved hamburger (base DSL). That's hard for me to stomach because I come to this place for my hamburger cooked just the way I've always liked it. I don't mind the cooks experimenting with new spices from time to time but I want the basic burger to stay the same.

If I have occasional cravings for Buffalo (2.6 kernels) and Turkey (Minimal linux) then I can go somewhere that has been specializing in those to satisfy my taste but I want to be able to always come back to my hamburger, cooked to the highest standards. That's what my favorite restaurant was built on. If I have one critique of my fav burger joint, it's that it decided at some point to remove the person in charge of the toppings (MyDSL) so they are kinda scattered all over the counter (Forum). They used to be neatly organized and if any toppings were getting old or had bad spots, that person would freshen them up and/or remove the bad spots. Right now I kinda have to pick through them and have to search for the toppings I want, spread all over the counter (Forum).

Now, maybe my fav joint will hire more cooks to make the other burgers, I just prefer the head cook (RS) keep his focus on that great burger I've come to love.

That's my take, now I need to get something to eat

rattler414 Offline

Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: June 2005

Posted: Jan. 17 2006,04:00

Mik, I could not agree with you more. Flavors and variety are nice but the tried and true staples should remain just that..staples. If I want 2.6.x I can use what ever I want ) If I want Koffice or what ever I'll go to a diner that does them well. When I want a solid light meal I'll come back to my "burger joint"

mikshaw

Group: Members
Posts: 4856
Joined: July 2004

Posted: Jan. 17 2006,04:21

You buffoon! that was chris =o)

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http://www.tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/index.html

cbagger01

Group: Members
Posts: 4264
Joined: Oct. 2003

Posted: Jan. 17 2006,06:05

In my opinion, what makes DSL great is the combination of:

great hardware detection (slimmed down knoppix core and knoppix autodetection scripts)

small and light additions (light Xserver,Window Manager, apps, printing, OPTIONAL light services, etc)

DSLness that makes dsl DSL and not just a stripped down knoppix (every concept, script, extension system, user contribution, etc)

I believe that the bottom 2 items are and always will be part of the core that makes up DSL.

However, I also think that the knoppix autodetection part is very important. The knoppix team does an unparalleled job of evolving (and usually autodetected) hardware support for a tremendous variety of hardware yet while running in a livecd environment.

Instead of doing some kinda "Linux From Scratch" project, the DSL developers wisely chose to build on this KNOPPIX foundation, and this is one of the main things that separates DSL from similar projects not based on KNOPPIX. This way most (not all) supported hardware "just works", while other projects need to go through the same learning curve that the knoppix guys once did, and usually with a much smaller team than the knoppix community.

Of course, after KNOPPIX 3.7, they eventually dropped the 2.4.x kernel series for the 2.6.x series. So most new knoppix hardware support development would only be useful for a "DSL with 2.6.x kernel" project.

But for the current DSL (2.4.x) project, there are tradeoffs to consider for future direction:

1) Go with recent 2.4 kernel build like 2.4.31
+ Latest 2.4 hardware support and some bugfixes
+ Mostly still works with the old KNOPPIX autodetection scripts, but some new drivers may need manual loading
+ ACPI now works on some hardware that broke it in the past
- ACPI sometimes interferes with some hardware/BIOS
+ SATA SUPPORT IMHO this is a REQUIREMENT for a "portable" OS because SATA is taking over the computer world
- Some wireless hardware is now inoperable. An investigation is ongoing with hope for a fix/workaround of some sort but at this point is still just hope.

2) Go with a remaster of the last KNOPPIX to support the 2.4.x kernel, 2.4.27 and KNOPPIX 3.7
+ famous KNOPPIX tested hardware support. If this kernel version supports your hardware, it will "just work"
+ SATA SUPPORT IMHO this is a REQUIREMENT for a "portable" OS because SATA is taking over the computer world
- Not the latest kernel, so some bugfixes and new hardware will not be supported.
- Unknown if some hardware support was broken when linux moved from 2.4.26 to 2.4.27
- More work. Developers must dig out the old "how to strip down KNOPPIX to make the DSL core" notebook.

3) Revert back to existing DSL1.5/KNOPPIX3.4/2.4.26 system
+ If your hardware worked in DSL1.5, it will work.
+ Relatively easy to backport to DSL 1.5 vs. other options
- NO SATA SUPPORT This is the biggest hangup for me. IMHO SATA support is a REQUIREMENT for a "portable" OS because SATA is taking over the computer world
- Not the latest kernel, so some bugfixes will not be included. Anyone whose hardware "now works great since DSL 2.0" , will lose this functionality.

So there are pluses and minuses for each direction. Personally, I have a strong preference for (1) or (2) because being able to see the hard drives on just about any computer built after 2003 is a BIG plus to me because I use DSL as a portable USBHDD system and I don't get to choose the computer model at my friends'/relatives'/work/etc so it is inevitable that I will encounter SATA drives.

29 replies since Jan. 15 2006,17:25

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