It's HUGE! Debian is 29 CD's big!
Forum: water cooler
Topic: It's HUGE! Debian is 29 CD's big!
started by: green
Posted by green on June 09 2005,23:07
I am not knocking Debian, because I've never installed it. I've never installed it because it's too freakin big for me to waste my time on. I was checking out the blurb on DistroWatch regarding DAMN SMALL LINUX 1.2 and just happened to notice the blurb about Debian. It sounds like they are bragging that it is 29 CD's big. 29?!?!?!? Yes, that's 29 CD's big.
I repeat, Debian is 29 CD's big.
Or, 2 DVD's big. Again, that's TWO DVD's big.
Holly crap, Bobby!?!?!? What are you gonna, I say, what are you gonna do with all those CD's
?I guess DAMN SMALL LINUX has spoiled me rotten, and I like it.
Posted by SaidinUnleashed on June 09 2005,23:15
bah. debian is still only a 28mb download.LUB the minimal install CD.
Posted by friedgold on June 09 2005,23:24
| Quote (green @ June 09 2005,19:07) |
| Quote |
| I repeat, Debian is 29 CD's big. |
Thats just the i386 version. If you put together all the CDs for the various platforms it runs on (powerpc, sparc, alpha, arm, etc) I believe it comes to around 170 CD's.
The 29 CD's figure is whats required to include every single debian i386 package in both binary + source form. Debian probably has the largest package repository of any binary based distro (around 15000 packages). I don't think anyone in their right mind would download all of that. The CDs are arranged so the most important stuff is on the first CD, next most important stuff on the second, etc and you can install from just the first CD if you want. The most elegent way of installing debian is downloading a 30MB netinstall cd. It then will just download the packages you require automatically.
Posted by clivesay on June 10 2005,02:24
I'm sure the debian minimal install and the gentoo install are great but after running DSL from ram and frugal I am completely spoiled. I just helped someone with their brand new Dell PC with 512mb ram and XP Home and the performance was HORRIBLE compared to what I am used to here at home with my 512mb ram system. The difference is staggering! I regular HD install just doesn't attract me at all.Chris
Posted by green on June 10 2005,03:03
I was just thinking about how much it would cost to run Debian. Granted, I may not NEED all 29 CD's, however, if I was going to do it, I would want all of them available. Good thing blank CD's are fairly cheap! But what about time, is that not worth anything? What about bandwidth? It seems to me that if I were to venture into the world of a full blown Debian install that it would cost me too much. Albeit, I would not be giving McGates any money for it. It's just hard to fathom that ANY full blown distro with multiple CD/DVD install discs running from HD would even come close to to my screaming fast DAMN SMALL LINUX on a 200Mhz boxen with 128Mb ram. Sure, I run DSL from faster boxen and slower boxen, but good grief man!Once again, kudos to John and his vision!
Thanks to all the contributors and dev team!
Thanks for Damn Small Linux !!
Posted by SaidinUnleashed on June 10 2005,04:33
full blown debian?do you really need 15 versions of the kernel, 5 versions of KDE, 4 versions of Gnome, both Xfree and Xorg, every server, runtime environment, window manager, and application in Christendom?
Debian is all about choices. And choices. And then more choices. With more choices on the side. With a few extra choices sprinkled on top.
Oh, and they spike the drink with even more choices.
Posted by MrBear37 on June 10 2005,13:07
Well said Said 
Green, I cana tell you that I have a Woody Debian install running on a 486-33 laptop with a 850 Meg HD. 32 megs RAM.
With Fluxbox.. as a window manager and it has basically all the bells and whistles I need. Interent connectivity and editors, games ..etc..etc..
I would arguably say that my little 486 ( once its booted) runs as well as the P-2 my wife has for a desktop.
I have DSL on my Thinkpad..( my primary computer) and I love it. I know that I can take my old 486 laptop to travel with.. and if I need anything off the net I can apt-get it and not think twice and it is rock solid. I will tell you that my laptop was an expiriment for me.. it has no CD drive.. so I installed it completely from Floppy's ( 30 to be exact). It took me about a day to get the install completed.. but..consider this. I spent one day.. doing the install, 4 years ago.. I used that as a primary laptop for 3 years.. and still pump it up and updates from time to time.. and for travel.
You might think that carrying around an old heavy 486 is silly in this day and age.. BUT.. Its a rock... it works.. and it has never given me any trouble at all. never..
Mark
Posted by green on June 10 2005,14:04
I have DSL as frugal on an old Stinkpad as well. A 600E (363Mhz 196Mb, 6G). Runs like a champ.Okay, I guess it's just that I am opposed to over doing it. I think that these distros with so many "choices" that all come on CD is way over done. I don't think I'm a minimalist, because I prefer GUI to CLI for general usage.
All I can say is that I have been running DSL on this 600E for many months, updating KNOPPIX/knoppix as new releases come out. The only things I added were Aterm and Samba. I don't even need Aterm obviously and really don't need Samba. Other than that, DSL already has everything I need to get through a day. All that other stuff is fluff to me. I realize some folks need it and/or want it, that's great, it's just not for me.
Again, this demonstrates the beauty of open source: Choices.
29 CD's is too many choices for me, but some one's gotta like it.
Posted by SuperWil on June 10 2005,16:08
Well, just to chime in, I've got DSL running on an old Micron Gobook, 233, 3.2g, 32mb ram, and I must admit, DSL basically brought that thing back from the dead... I've got the occasional problem with the CMOS clock (I'm too lazy to get a new cmos battery), but otherwise I can do everything I need to do on that laptop (which my brother was gonna toss)... I love choices, but sometimes it's nice to have JUST what you need...
Posted by WoofyDugfock on June 18 2005,13:38
This thread's probably dead, nevertheless...I just installed my first Debian (new stable release) from the net-install cd over a slow connection. (EDIT: Apparently this is a brand new installation method for Debian). The net-install cd is ~ 108MB download, and it apt-gets another ~40MB I think for the base system (or did for mine). I chose the "desktop" system. So far so good -- a really easy install process, I was particularly impressed by how it installs and sets up Grub for dual boot all by itself.
BUT "base system" is just that - actually no more than basic. After boot up you have the commandline blinking at you. There's no x-windows, no xserver-xfree86, and NO windows manager - not even fluxbox or similar - and no dillo or mozilla. And no instructions about setting any of that up. You have to apt-get all that and then configure xfree86 - hardly newbie-friendly.
When xfree86 refused to recognise my weird keyboard (everything else, including the ATI Rage video card, was ok) no matter what settings I put in, I booted Knoppix and overwrote the Debian xfree86 conf file with the one that Knoppix had autogenerated, and bingo! - all was fixed and Fluxbox, Firefox etc were up and running.
Now I'm downloading 2 or 3 of the full installation cds on a broadband connection so as to avoid any more painfully slow apt-getting at 5kb/s.
While I'm enjoying my new Debian system it would have to be asked - just WHAT the hell are the Debian developers thinking? To any newbie, a "desktop" install comes with a "desktop" ie a windows manager and at least a basic web browser. Most won't know what xfree86 is, let alone be able to configure it, GUI or no.
Given dsl can pack all it does into 50MB, you really have to wonder why the deb folks don't pinch the knoppix autoconfigure scripts for xfree86 and at least put dillo, emelfm and scite into their "desktop system" net install... I mean, you have to wonder what exactly takes up 109MB in the net-install cd ...
Nonetheless Debian's really great, and dsl wouldn't be here without it.
EDIT: For those interested, there's a good review of this new installation process for the new Debian 3.1 < here >. According to this, x-server IS supposed to be downloaded and some video cards "unreliably" autodetected - that download didn't happen with mine, maybe I selected a wrong option somewhere.
Posted by SaidinUnleashed on June 20 2005,02:00
My debian netinst cd download is still a nice 32mb (the buisnesscard CD iso) and it works fine.I think your 108mb has a few more frills than mine. Like maybe a few default packages.
Debian is not intended to be a "newbie" distribution. The developers try to make it have the most stable and secure applications available. Period. Beyond that is up to the user.
Personally, I hate distributions that make me install an X server from the get-go. Even DSL sometimes ticks me off because I cannot get to a bash prompt as a non-root user without X starting.
Debian gives you Linux. Pure and simple. And stable as a rock.
Posted by WoofyDugfock on June 20 2005,14:22
SU speaketh the truth - the more I fiddle with it the more I can see its power - Debian's amazing. The aptitude system is great - clean uninstalls in theory. Damnsmall's prepared me for "fiddly bits" and the general structure of the thing so installing debian didn't come as too much of a shock. You're right about the non-newbie thing - but it's clear they're trying to make it smoother with this new install process. The main barrier is the docs: their installation guide stops short of telling you how to configure X - I just learned they have a package that'll do it for you (xdebconfigurator) but they don't even mention that.The 108MB netinst cd is new with Debian 3.1 apparently, I think they're still working it out since they are asking for install reports. The business card is still there.
Someone has developed their own install cd which looks very interesting
< Debian Pure >.
Today I topped up the net install using the first full install cd #1. There's a HUGE amount of stuff on that one CD: Gnome and KDE + bells & whistles, five web browsers or so, a pile of development stuff, a pile of shells and terminal emulators, usual network programs, interpreters such as python, text editors etc etc all kinds of desktop and admin software, ~ 6 kernel images ready to go, the list goes on and on... I might have to start uninstalling some of it...
Makes me wonder if I need to look at CD#2....!
PS: There's a very nice piece on the strengths of Debian vs other OSs
< here >.
Posted by irkab1rka on June 20 2005,23:37
Who cares. You have DSL downloaded, haven't you? 
Posted by Guest on June 22 2005,08:53
| Quote |
| Who cares. You have DSL downloaded, haven't you? |
This thread is in 'water cooler', which is for non-DSL discussion.
Posted by WoofyDugfock on June 22 2005,09:03
Actually, the reason I was led to install Debian is because of dsl.dsl is Debian-based and this topic is about Debian.
So care or don't care or post somewhere else. I was just sharing my experiences.