DSL Ideas and Suggestions :: Help Beginners Help Themselves

I have been doing alot of thinking lately on how do we help new people get going with DSL. With the increased amount of press that DSL is receiving the user base is only going to continue to multiply at a rapid rate.

For information we currently have the forum, doc project and the DSLinfo bot in IRC. The regulars of this community are truly bright people that offer alot of useful information....almost an overwhelming amount. Despite all these resources, we still have multiple threads of things like "I can't boot my usb drive". I was very guilty of this myself early on and still make the mistakes of asking before searching from time to time.

My question is can we have a "Click here first if you are new to DSL" type button or something and place it on the main page, the forum index board, or wherever else appropriate. Once they click on that, they are given the link to the docs project, the forum search page with an example of how to search, a link to google.com/linux and maybe an overview of the DSLInfo bot.

People need to understand that using these methods will answer many of their questions faster than posting in a forum or waiting for ke4nt, saidin, tronik, myself, etc to jump on IRC. I personally would like IRC be a little more light and fun rather than just be an alternative to searching or using the docs.

Bottom line, if you're truly stuck ask a question. If you don't want to take the time to search a little, maybe you aren't quite ready to learn something new right now.

Just my thoughts.

Chris

I think the real problem with most Linux docs is that they are by programmers
for programmers. Info files at least have a few examples. The other problem
is that there is so much to absorb at one time! DOS has a few dozen programs and internal words to use. With BASH there are tons of scripts
so study just to learn the commands. I sometimes wonder if an alternate LS
command that displayed a description with the executable name (ah, like
4dos) might be helpful for newbies and old-bees who don't recognize some new feature until they trip over it. - -

I'll add my two cents to this one.

Yes, I am guilty as charged. I'm a noob/newb, hoping to graduate out of it someday.

From my perspective, a lot of docs I've read that are supposed to help new folks, take a lot for granted. This is no new subject. All forums and distro's I've played with discuss this issue and have the same perceived problem.

Just being honest here, it seems to me that whomever is going to be responsible for documentation take a stand and say, "this is the style of doc that we are writing. If you don't like it, we are sorry. But that does not mean we don't want you around to enjoy this distro with us." I say this because most docs take a lot for granted. Myself and so many others have been completely brainwashed by the microsoft way of doing things that it is very difficult for some us to break out of that. I am learning, maybe slowly, but learning none the less and all of the individuals mentioned in your post (Clivesay), including you, have helped me at one time or another. And quite frankly, I don't think I would understand some of the concepts without that personal assistance.

So, for the record, let me say thank you for your patience and thank you to the others as well.

With all that said (here's the meat), most docs are written by someone with knowledge of the subject at hand (i should hope) but I have to wonder if they themselves have forgotten what it was like to look at Linux or DSL in particular and say, "what IS that?" "I like it, but have no idea what it is, but I wanna know more!" Does that sound familiar? What about those who have never done more than check email and browse the web? Not trying to belittle anyone, but those types will not know what to do in the least. Using windows they never had to go read anything, tweak this, or change that or "go in as root." I remember thinking, "What the hell is that?" See the perspective?

I understand some people may get tired of answering the same old questions all the time.

So, back to my earlier comment, it comes down to this:

"Look Mr/Mrs Noob, if you don't understand, go look for it because I ain't gonna help you until you do AND make some kind of attempt at it AFTER you go look for the answer AND I can tell if you looked for the answer by the way you word your questions."

Either you let everyone know up front that this is how it's gonna be OR you answer all those questions again and again and like it.

Disclaimer: The word 'you' contained in the above is not directed at any idividual in particular, but is used in the general sense of word. In this case it means, 'you' as 'anyone' who takes it upon themselves to answer a question or assist in some manner.

P.S.
The IRC chat has been 'advertised' as a place to get help if you need it. Kinda like a tutor, is the way I took it. That's why some people go there. Perhaps one channel for 'help' and another for 'socializing' would be in order and have them 'advertised' as such. Just a thought. However, I'm still gonna ask 'you' questions anytime I need to. But no one has to answer.

green -

I agree with you on pretty much everything. Don't take my post as a slap at noobs. I am only one year into linux myself.

Linux docs can be very kryptic, no doubt. My point is that this forum contains alot of great info. The people here don't just explain how to do something, they also contribute the commands, script, code or whatever. Then, you have a couple guys who step up and pull the "greatest hits" from the forum and create an entire project around documentation.

We should leverage these things to guide people when they are starting out. Part of the documentation project was a thread teaching people how to effectively post a question. This helps the noob find info and understand how to effectively get their questions answered.

IRC is for asking questions for sure. My point is why come to IRC and ask where the icon files are before you have searched for any info only to have me pull up the DSL forum, click search and paste the url into IRC?

Again, I am not trying to talk down to anyone, I am just proposing a way to get the info to people faster than creating a new thread and waiting for someone to reply?

I see the work being done here to make information user-friendly so let's use it.

and green, I'll help you anytime.

Chris

Clivesay,

I do not take your post as a slap against noob's. Your help here is priceless.

I also agree with you on your points. I don't really know how to express it very well, but I was just thinking that if there was way that the noob's could not miss certain information (like Dillo poping up when they boot the CD) then it would be nice. I think the real problem is that some are readers and some are not. I'm lazy, but I'll read. Sometimes I have to be prompted to read (never did find lilo AND PM... SU) .

I am officially offering my help if needed to write something or somethings for noob's, from my noob perspective, to be reviewed and maybe used for some purpose. Of course my knowledge is limited, but am willing to contribute.

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